[olug] linux web server management ?

[Jeff Hinrichs]

First, let me make this clear: I don't disagree with the opinions you have
about
ease of use. I agree things need to be done to make desktop *nix more
end-user
friendly.  The latest Mac OS is a nice big move in that direction.

Now with that being said, I am going to take issue with this often used and
in my opinion, very bad analogy.
> Applying this attitude to something else that ubiquitous (the car) and you
> would be saying that if you don't know how the internal combustion engine
> works, and how timing curves, compression ratios, cam shaft profiles, and
> fuel metering work, then you shouldn't be driving.

No legal driver ever gets behind the wheel with out being tested for their
proficiencies and understanding of the rules of the road.  No one just hops
in to a car and can safely drive.  At the very least they've spent
considerable
time peering over the shoulder of another driver.  Years in fact.

Car's do a single thing.  There is a well defined interface and most people
have had auxiliary training via tricycles, big wheels, et al to develop an
innate
understanding of inertia and steering.

Now if the average person wants to do anything with their car other than
driving, i.e. repaint it, change the tires, oil, etc.  They take their car
to a
professional who does the requested installation/modifications.  All the end
user knows in this regard is how to plug it in (get gas).

If you saw a NASCAR race on TV do you think you could modify your
car to compete?  Do you think you have the know how to safely drive in
such a race?

My point being is that if you want to do anything outside of drive your car
from point a to point b, the average user can not with out the aid of a
professional and/or training.

Using a word processor or spread sheet is a better fitting analogy to a car.
Installing new software is analogous to installing after market parts.  Can
you honestly say, that the average person is capable of installing their own
new tires or shocks?  What about changing their own oil?

Are you P.O'd at Ford or GM for not making super chargers easier to
install?  Are they a bunch of elitist bastards?

Windows is easy like a digital whore.
Now on to M$ winblows, sure you can install software.  Anyone can,
at any time, for any reason.  Then it breaks.  Windows is an interwoven
digital hairball that eventually causes a pc to spit up.     Many
programmers are lazy and don't write decent de-install routines so
cruft builds up.  Cruft is bad.Cruft causes mysterious problems.
Using a centralized repository for user settings/data is junk.

A good install  for an end user app doesn't spew bits all over the file
system.
There should be two install methods:

An End-User install where
all bits should be stored under a single directory.  However the program
wants but in its own directory.  Want to remove the program? Delete the
directory. Want to move the app to a different machine, copy the directory.
All files created by the user app should tell the file system they are user
files
so a backup can discriminate between user apps and user data.

A Sys-Admin install:
An app to be used by multiple users or requires additions or changes to
system level services. Here the app files go under a single
directory and the user files go under the users directory.  Much like most
*nix application installs.  You need experience/know how.

An end user install should be painless for the end user.  However, a
sys-admin
install should not be attempted by a user without reading the doc files.
Not all applications are end-user installable.

End user installs become challenging when they require certain system level
components to be present and configured in a required manner.  Software
should have a rating system based on whether or not it requires non-default
system components and/or customized system settings.  Even do it yourself
books have an experience/ability ranking system to warn people from
attempting to do things beyond their current capabilities.

Linux currently is usable by all but almost all installs beyond what comes
packaged with your distro require sys-admins.  I must say that RedHat's
up2date service makes most installs a breeze.  However, you're either all
RPMs or your not.  You don't want to install some from tarball and some
from RPM because tarballs don't update the RPM database.  So you
can't expect it to work if you're only giving it part of the information.
Up2date is great if you are ok with "it works", if you want leading edge
then rpm is not for you. Up2date does away with the dependency
problems that I've seen mentioned quite a few times lately on the board.
It figures out the deps and downloads what you need to install the
desired app.  Not to mention keeping track of unpatched systems.

Bill I agree with your feelings, but I hated your analogy.
-Jeff