[olug] OT: evil poll

Thu Oct 30 04:47:09 UTC 2008

On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 10:51 PM, Thomas D. Williamson <
twilliam at inebraska.com> wrote:

> My father-in-law was dependent on big government programs the last
> years of his life. Were it not for Medicare, Medicaid and Social
> Security, he would have lived a very short unpleasant life and left my
> mother-in-law destitute. I see this happen with other families
> regularly.

I am sorry for your loss.

Social Security is a pyramid scheme - a bad plan that depends on large
families and expanding numbers of contributors that is coming to a crashing
end in the near future.  This isn't crazy talk, the numbers themselves bear
this out.

Health care is a whole issue unto itself.  Does anyone have any real reason
why health care is not faster/better/cheaper?  That entire industry doesn't
even believe in the pick 2 idiom.  It, like education, has way to many
middle-men leaching on it.  I just read a story about how some doctors are
now refusing insurance completely.  The story reported that after expenses
and payroll, the doctor was only making about $15-20/hour.  Recent trends in
medicine with doctors choosing specilization over GP due to financical
considerations would seem to back up this account.  So, If doctors can't
afford to just be doctors and health insurance is growing out of control --
there is something woefully wrong with the system.  Making it bigger doesn't
mean solving the problem.

> When the corrections for the Depression 1931, after the 1929 Crash,
> occurred, the solution of government programs to create employment for
> about a third of the 25% of the population unemployed stimulated the
> economy and allowed the rebuilding of the industrial base that when WW
> II began the tooling up for that conflict kept us a head of the German
> industries.

That entire point is open to argument.  It could also be argued that the
size and scope of government intervention prolonged the problem by creating
a situation where lending essentially froze -- in many ways there are
parallels to today.  It could also be argued that it was the war itself that
brought us out of the problem.  I've never heard anyone argue that if it
wasn't for the "New Deal" the allies would/could have lost the war.

>
> Conversely when you have an administration that acts out the concept
> that government programs are bad there are the failures that we saw
> with FEMA. We saw it in the lack of inspections for safety and purity
> from international imports of food, drugs, and products for children.

Failure by FEMA?  What is the standard reaction time for FEMA,  On an event
of that scope, a reaction time of 3-7 days for federal help is quite
normal.  As for the rest of your arugment, I don't have anything to add
without specific instances to analyze.

>
> There are many things that "big government" does for us as a nation
> and a society that individuals and local communities cannot do for
> themselves. It is such a natural part of civil society we do not see
> it immediately.

Yes, and those things are layed out in the constitution.  I would only
rarely agree when the government tries to expand beyond that scope.

Why is it that people believe that government can operate in some magical
realm that operatess with different laws of cash flows than the ones you and
I must face?

Regards,
-Jeff

>
> Tom Williamson
>
> Quoting Jeff Hinrichs - DM&T <jeffh at dundeemt.com>:
>
> > This whole topic is moot.  There are only 2 realistic candidates.  One is
> > for big government and the other is for extremely big government.  From
> the
> > two, I pick the less big government.  McCain.
> >
> > When in your life has a big federal government benefited you?  As an
> > example, I point to the recent flooding in LA and IA.  Those completely
> > dependent on the government were screwed, those that pride themselves for
> > their independence did not suffer in the same needless manner.  Making
> > yourself dependent on government is a recipe for disaster.
> >
> > And as someone already mentioned, having matching parties in control of
> the
> > executive and legislative branches is disaster.  History bears this fact
> out
> > -- I encourage yourself to find out more about what happens when this
> > occurs.
> >
> > There are two, completely logical and defensible positions.  Make up your
> > own minds, don't let the media, group think or worse, control your vote.
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 9:58 PM, T. J. Brumfield
> > <enderandrew at gmail.com>wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 9:52 PM, Christopher Cashell
> >> <topher-olug at zyp.org> wrote:
> >> > The first was McCain's appointment of Sarah Palin.  John McCain is 72
> >> > years old, and the average life expectancy in the US for men is about
> >> > 75 years.  That means that statistically, McCain will most likely die
> >> > before he finishes his term as president, if elected.  And I think
> >>
> >> If you don't like Palin, you don't like Palin.  I can certainly
> >> understand that.  However I don't think it is fair to speculate he is
> >> going to die of old age.  Most people retire, and then lead inactive
> >> lives at his age.  Most people aren't rich, and don't have excellent
> >> health care.  McCain is active, is rich, has excellent heath care, and
> >> has a healthy, active mother in her late 90's.
> >>
> >> Active people tend to live longer.  It isn't a given he is just going
> >> to up and die in the next four years.
> >>
> >> -- T, J,
> >> "In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of
> >> people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
> >> --Douglas Adams
> >> "Nihilism makes me smile."
> >> --Christopher Quick
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jeff Hinrichs
> > Dundee Media & Technology, Inc
> > jeffh at dundeemt.com
> > 402.218.1473
> > web: www.dundeemt.com
> > blog: inre.dundeemt.com
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>
>
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-- 
Jeff Hinrichs
Dundee Media & Technology, Inc
jeffh at dundeemt.com
402.218.1473
web: www.dundeemt.com
blog: inre.dundeemt.com