[olug] The microcosm that says so much

Tue May 11 00:45:24 UTC 2010

Well, I don't agree that the limitations are a bad thing. I'm increasingly
of the opinion, as I study good interfaces and attempt to create my own,
that a truly good UI isn't about what you show but what you don't show.
Super-configurable UIs have an important role to play, but in my experience
are usually used as a crutch to avoid real design. Too much choice leads to
paralysis; anyone intent on creating a user-friendly UI needs to act as a
curator.

Some people are really opinionated about how their UI should work, and to
that end I think the KDE/Gnome duality is all about that difference in
opinion; and that's perfectly healthy. Regardless of how you think desktop
UIs should behave, there's probably somewhere for you to call home.

On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 3:40 PM, T. J. Brumfield <enderandrew at gmail.com>wrote:

> I think the final shipped theme is an improvement. I also think the new
> Unity shell looks very sharp. I really like the clear monochromatic systray
> icons that both KDE and Gnome have gravitated to (not to mention Windows
> 7).
>
>
> http://arstechnica.com/open-source/reviews/2010/05/exclusive-hands-on-with-ubuntus-new-unity-netbook-shell.ars
>
> However, I still think the default widgets and icons are pretty hideous.
>
>
> http://www.debianadmin.com/ubuntu-10-04-lucid-beta-1-screenshots-gallery.html?pid=303
>
>
>
> http://www.debianadmin.com/ubuntu-10-04-lucid-beta-1-screenshots-gallery.html?pid=275
>
>
> Again, compare those icons to what ships with Mac OS X, Windows 7 and KDE
> 4.
>
> That being said, my original point in this thread isn't that the button
> placement is good or bad, but rather I don't understand why Linux users
> (who
> in all other areas praise choice and freedom) gravitate to a DE whose HIG
> going out of their way to limit choice. I know some users never change the
> defaults they get, but why would you want software that intentionally
> limits
> you?
>
> As we move forward to Gnome 3 and the new Gnome shell, people will debate
> the merits/flaws of the new shell. My point will be whether or not you like
> the shell, why should you be forced into conventions you may or may not
> like?
>
> The major sticking point of the KDE 4 rewrite was to create tools to make
> it
> easy to customize and design new interfaces. Within seconds I can change
> between "activities" which change the entire desktop shell. And part of me
> wouldn't be shocked to see someone very quickly whip-up a comparible
> activity for KDE that mimics the functionality of the new Gnome shell.
>
> -- T. J. Brumfield
>
> On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 3:21 PM, Adam Lassek <adam at doubleprime.net> wrote:
>
> > After spending 10-12 hours using Lucid, the button-placement is a
> complete
> > non-issue. I was used to it after only a couple hours, and the final
> > release
> > looks very nice & polished.
> >
> > Also, the boot-time for 10.04 is AMAZING. If you're running an older
> > version
> > of Ubuntu, you owe it to yourself to upgrade for this reason alone. I
> have
> > not been this impressed with an OS's boot-time since BeOS r5. I don't
> even
> > have an SSD HDD either, standard Dell workstation.
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:59 PM, Adam Lassek <adam at doubleprime.net>
> wrote:
> >
> > > I'm withholding judgement until the theme is at least beta-quality. I
> > think
> > > some of the 'uproar' if you can call it that is over a
> misunderstanding;
> > > Lucid Lynx is under UI-Freeze, which people take to mean the theme is
> > done.
> > > In fact there's a lot more tweaking in store before this gets released,
> > so
> > > what we are seeing is unfinished.
> > >
> > > Most of the arguments against the change that I have seen amount to
> > > 'Windows does it that way, and so Ubuntu should do it that way' which I
> > > don't think is a valid criticism.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:41 AM, T. J. Brumfield <
> enderandrew at gmail.com
> > >wrote:
> > >
> > >> Ubuntu announced their next LTS release will feature a new theme.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2010/03/ubuntu-dumps-the-brown-introduces-new-theme.ars
> > >>
> > >> Personally, I still can't stand the stock icons most Gnome desktops
> > >> use. Ick. Look at the Windows 7, Mac OS X, or KDE Oxygen icons for
> > >> comparison.
> > >>
> > >> But what has most people up in arms is the order of buttons on the
> > >> window decoration. People are screaming this is just copying OS X.
> > >> (For the record, I have no qualms copying good design, which is why I
> > >> urged Kwin to adopt the Aero Snap feature, which they eventually did).
> > >>
> > >> However, all the hate and vitrol isn't necessary. As someone who very
> > >> rarely uses Gnome, it never occured to me that you can't simply
> > >> configure the window decoration buttons how you want.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> http://blog.nixternal.com/2010.03.05/let-me-tell-you-where-to-put-the-buttons/
> > >>
> > >> In KDE, you can configure the window decorations to behave exactly how
> > you
> > >> want.
> > >>
> > >> Then again, Gnome doesn't even ship with a Font Installer. I know the
> > >> goal is to have sane defaults, but at some point, shouldn't a user be
> > >> empowered to customize their desktop how they want? Reading the Gnome
> > >> HIG, I see that the Gnome developers feel users are stupid and should
> > >> not be afforded choice. Am I crazy to think I shouldn't be patronized
> > >> by my desktop?
> > >>
> > >> If you want to see the difference between Gnome and KDE, I can think
> > >> of no better example than this. With Gnome, you get what you get, and
> > >> you better like it. If you don't, too bad. In KDE, you can have it
> > >> anyway you want.
> > >>
> > >> I'm sincerely shocked that the Linux community (who seems to value
> > >> choice) would prefer a desktop environment determined to limit choice.
> > >>
> > >> -- T. J. Brumfield
> > >> "I'm questioning my education
> > >> Rewind and what does it show?
> > >> Could be, the truth it becomes you
> > >> I'm a seed, wondering why it grows"
> > >> -- Pearl Jam, Education
> > >> _______________________________________________
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> > >> OLUG at olug.org
> > >> https://lists.olug.org/mailman/listinfo/olug
> > >>
> > >
> > >
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