[olug] Contested view

[Ben Dinger]

On Wed, Oct 27, 2004 at 07:45:48AM -0500, Christopher Cashell wrote:
> 
> The argument presented below seems slightly confused, and doesn't
> entirely make sense.
> 

The part that mostly doesn't make sense is that most Novell services are being ported to run on Linux.  

> > "What I meant specifically was in enterprise applications.  Linux
> > hasn't yet been able to produce enterprise management systems for
> > managing distributed environments.
> 
> Linux is a kernel and used as a generic term for a Unix-like Operating
> System.  It isn't a company, and it doesn't "produce" software.  The
> community often does, but Linux doesn't.
> 

His argument is clouded by FUD, it seems.  

I think what he is trying to say is that Novell provides tools that aren't yet available (but will be soon..) to run on Linux.  Well, mainly ZENworks.  Which I can honestly say from an admin standpoint - is heaven.  There are other third-party apps that run on NetWare that are very nice and not *yet* available to run under Linux, but the key word there is "yet".  

> 
> > Novell provides application distribution platforms, server
> > configuration and management applications, directory services, and now
> > with the purchase of Ximian, improved desktop management and
> > applications.
> 
> I'm confused as to exactly what he's trying to say, here.  Is he
> pointing out that these are things that Novell provides for Netware,
> and that Linux lacks (which isn't true)?  Or is he admitting that Novell
> is offering solutions to his above complaint, and that enterprise
> management and integration software already exists[1] for Linux?
> 

Yes, these are things that Novell provides for Netware, and yes, these are things that are not yet available to run on a system with a Linux kernel.  Novell produces some absolutely wonderful (and sometimes absolutely cryptic) server management apps, and in all honesty, "dumbed down" management apps are for the most part lacking in generic Linux distros.  They are certainly getting much better, though.  

> The fact is, Novell has done an excellent job over the past year of
> positioning themselves to be a major player in the Linux space,
> especially for business use.  They've got the name and reputation that
> companies are willing to buy into, and they've acquired some excellent
> additions to their already solid Linux offerings with SuSE and Ximian.

Novell is, correct, basing their future strategy on applications running atop some sort of Linux kernel.  With Netware 7, you will have the option of running the NOS on top of a Netware *or* Linux kernel.  They have already ported their enterprise collaboration app, GroupWise, to Linux - which you can run on a Linux-kernel system or Netware-kernel system for the same price.  

And you are correct, the purchase of Suse was a beautifully-timed event.  And Ximian.  They are using both to develop a "Novell Linux Desktop", which should be out sometime in the next couple of months/years (it's been rumored on the novell-dev lists, and semi-confirmed).  

> Even without that, however, Linux has most of the pieces needed to build
> an enterprise network, provided you have experienced people willing to
> do the integration work themselves.  When you put together OpenLDAP,
> Samba, Apache, JBoss, BIND, Qmail/Sendmail/Postfix, Courier-IMAP,
> vsftpd, Kerberos, PostgreSQL, Evolution, Open Office, and a few others,
> along with a little elbow grease, it's pretty amazing what you can get
> going.

"...provided you have experienced people willing to do the integration work themselves."

This *specifically* is, in a terribly convuluted and roundabout way, what the other author was getting at.  Novell beats Linux for "dumbed down administration" hands-down.  It's just that simple.  Companies don't want to pay a couple UNIX admins $50k/yr each when they can buy software for a fifth of that.  The costs get negated very quickly, and even if they don't, they also have to look at the support aspect, the user aspect - too many aspects for upper management to care about "the right thing". 

I know all about this because this is what I have been doing for the past two years.  

> > Novell is the only company I see doing these things, and doing them
> > well, but they may never see the light of day because of their
> > stigma."
> 
> I'm not sure exactly what stigma he's talking about.  From what I've
> seen, heard, and read, the Linux community seems to be fairly impressed
> with Novell and their Linux activities.  The fact is, Novell has
> basically bet their company on Linux for their future.  Netware is
> on it's last legs, and they know that.  They just didn't know how to fix
> it, until recently.  They needed a direction to help them move forward,
> and I think they've finally found it.

He's actually feeding his own stigma.  Netware has *always* been an excellent product, they just got blown out of the water by Microsoft with NT 4 Server and WIndows 2000.  I mean, really, adminning a Novell cluster is freaking CAKE compared to anything else - they just lost a market share that is really, really, really hard to regain. 

> I disagree that they're the only company working on these things,
> too.  Red Hat is slowly, but surely, moving forward towards Enterprise
> viability.  And with many excellent integrators like IBM out there, who
> will find a way to make things work for you, I think Linux is primed to
> do very well in the Enterprise in the immediate future.

Well, IBM is pumping money into Novell.  I wouldn't be surprised to see the two of them completely in bed with each other sometime soon.  

Redhat really shot themselves in the foot.  They angered the community, then on the heels of that came in Good Brother Novell and these crazy new German friends of theirs - SuSE.  Who, arguably in many circles, have a product that could be better than anything the Hat has done in years.  I don't know if it's still true, but I know that Linus himself used to run SuSE (OMG FANBOY TIME) :). 

Anyway, Linux distros as a whole are in a perfect position right now - and need to keep going in the direction most are going.  

-- 
Ben Dinger
ben at mac-geek.com
"The Pope?  How many divisions has he got?" --Josef Stalin